pre-wedding conversation with the yalies.

I went to a wedding this past weekend. The night before, I ended up in this conversation, which shows you my tolerance when it is assumed that girls suck.

[scripty]
PAMIE
I just think she’s a really good actress, that’s all.

VERY TALL ANDY
Okay. I’m sorry. I take back what I said about Toni Collette. I’ll give her another chance.

PAMIE
You don’t have to do anything. I was just telling you what I think.

VERY TALL ANDY
Yes, but I shouldn’t have said she sucks. You just told me three movies I liked her in. I will rethink what I said.

NOT AS TALL ANDY
(Something about sports that makes pamie tune out immediately and look at something else, like her drink, the window, a bowl of not-moving trail mix.)

STEE
Hey, a friend and I were talking the other day and… do you think that the best basketball team of 1920 could beat the best team in the WNBA right now?

NOT AS TALL ANDY
Well, that’s assuming that you care anything about the WNBA.

MEN IN ROOM
Har! Har! Har!
(Perhaps some high-fives)

NOT AS TALL ANDY
That’s an interesting question.

STEE
We were wondering how far you’d have to go back before you’d find a team that wouldn’t be able to beat the best team in the WNBA.

VERY TALL ANDY
Wait. You’re wondering if dead people can beat real, live girls?

STEE
Well…

PAMIE
Hey, do you guys think that a bunch of puppies could beat girls at basketball? If they were holding sticks?

NOT AS TALL ANDY
I see we have upset Pam.

PAMIE
Or maybe like, retarded people? Maybe the girls could finally pull one out over them?

STEE
Why are you so upset?

VERY TALL ANDY
Oh, Pam.

PAMIE
Maybe like, retarded puppies might finally be on par with professional basketball players who happen to be women.

NOT AS TALL ANDY
Do you have statistics to back up–

PAMIE
Or dead puppies. A pile of dead puppies, covered in old food? Do you think the girls might finally be able to score one? Or do the dead puppies have to be girls, too, in order for it to be equal?

VERY TALL ANDY
So, Toni Collette–

NOT AS TALL ANDY
I’m curious why you’re so upset about this, Pam.

PAMIE
Hey, who’s excited about Snakes On A Plane?

STEE
They’re not going to beat like, any team from the seventies. So I was just trying to go back to a time when maybe men were shorter, and less–

PAMIE
“I want these mutherfuckin’ snakes! Off this mutherfuckin’ plane!”

NOT AS TALL ANDY
I want to know why you’re so upset. Maybe if we talked about statistics–

PAMIE
Do you not see me trying to change the subject? Like, really, really hard?

NOT AS TALL ANDY
I do. But are you just going to blindly assume that women are better at sports now than say, men from–

VERY TALL ANDY
Munchkinland? Mars? Pypgmies? Could girls beat Pygmies?

PAMIE
I’m done with this conversation, and there’s no amount of alcohol you could ply me with tomorrow that would get me back into it.

NOT AS TALL ANDY
Are you sure?

PAMIE
One night, almost seven years ago, I got into an argument about whether or not there are any good girl groups that are all female. In my head? I’m still having this argument. And I’m still just as pissed at the man who tried to tell me that there weren’t.

VERY TALL ANDY
I think Toni Collette deserves an Oscar.

PAMIE
Thanks.
[/scripty]

Good to see I’m not the only one standing up for the girls.

19 thoughts on “pre-wedding conversation with the yalies.

  1. It’s not just boys. I have a girl friend who says she hates female voices because they make her feel tingly. What? Maybe the tingling sensation is the music making an impact.

  2. I’ve had this conversation. Yup…My boyfriend was upset because the only game on TV he could find was a WNBA game. So he watched the news (again) instead. “Because girls basketball isn’t interesting. They don’t do fun stuff like dunk…but if they try to dunk, then they are just trying to be one of the guys.” Yeah, I’m still arguing in my head too, even though I backed out gracefully a month ago.

  3. Hmm. Well, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wondering how today’s women compare to men years ago. While there are exceptions, it is generally true that due to anatomical differences, women and men play sports at two different levels. So I don’t really find that question offensiveBut there IS something offensive about being dismissive of women’s sports in general or thinking that women don’t work as hard as men. That’s just sexist. And at the end of the conversation you mention music. Most of the guys I know listen to few, if any, female singers, which is a shame. They miss out on a lot of good music because they don’t want to be seen as “girly.”

  4. Hmm. Well, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wondering how today’s women compare to men years ago. While there are exceptions, it is generally true that due to anatomical differences, women and men play sports at two different levels. So I don’t really find that question offensiveBut there IS something offensive about being dismissive of women’s sports in general or thinking that women don’t work as hard as men. That’s just sexist. And at the end of the conversation you mention music. Most of the guys I know listen to few, if any, female singers, which is a shame. They miss out on a lot of good music because they don’t want to be seen as “girly.”

  5. I’ve had this conversation too and it is never a fun one. Especially because you are comparing apples and oranges. It’s fine to talk stats, I guess, but it doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t a fair comparison and 90% of the time they are using arguments like “girls can’t dunk.” So what? The 3-point shot is worth more and they can do that just fine, better than men a lot of the time because they spend more time practicing it and not bothering to try to do a tripple gainer during their dunk.The other frustrating thing for me is, you say well, ok, women may not be as good as men at basketball stats-wise because of physiology, but men don’t compete on the balance beam for the same reason, women are better built for it. The response I usually get for that? “We aren’t talking about sissy sports like gymnastics.” Gah! Stupid mysogyny. I think there just scared of falling of the balance beam and looking silly.

  6. I’ve had this conversation too and it is never a fun one. Especially because you are comparing apples and oranges. It’s fine to talk stats, I guess, but it doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t a fair comparison and 90% of the time they are using arguments like “girls can’t dunk.” So what? The 3-point shot is worth more and they can do that just fine, better than men a lot of the time because they spend more time practicing it and not bothering to try to do a tripple gainer during their dunk.The other frustrating thing for me is, you say well, ok, women may not be as good as men at basketball stats-wise because of physiology, but men don’t compete on the balance beam for the same reason, women are better built for it. The response I usually get for that? “We aren’t talking about sissy sports like gymnastics.” Gah! Stupid mysogyny. I think there just scared of falling of the balance beam and looking silly.

  7. I’ve had this conversation too and it is never a fun one. Especially because you are comparing apples and oranges. It’s fine to talk stats, I guess, but it doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t a fair comparison and 90% of the time they are using arguments like “girls can’t dunk.” So what? The 3-point shot is worth more and they can do that just fine, better than men a lot of the time because they spend more time practicing it and not bothering to try to do a tripple gainer during their dunk.The other frustrating thing for me is, you say well, ok, women may not be as good as men at basketball stats-wise because of physiology, but men don’t compete on the balance beam for the same reason, women are better built for it. The response I usually get for that? “We aren’t talking about sissy sports like gymnastics.” Gah! Stupid mysogyny. I think there just scared of falling of the balance beam and looking silly.

  8. “There are mutherfuckin’ women basketball players on this mutherfuckin’ plane!”I know women who aren’t female athletes that could kick many male asses. I ain’t talking short scrawny men, either. Why? Because they are forces to be reckoned with, pure and simple.

  9. Ugh. That is all I have to say. Back slowly away from the dumb boy conversations. God, sometimes I really wish I worked and hung out with something other than boys. It makes me stay single because I only hear them being stupid with each other like all the time. Heh!

  10. I too have friends who won’t listen to girl singers because they “don’t like female voices.” On the one hand, maybe it’s just an aesthetic thing, like my friend who likes classical orchestral but not classical piano. But it always weirds me out to hear them say it, especially since it’s usually girls saying it! My boyfriend on the other hand told me he and a friend of his came to the conclusion that not always and maybe not even as a rule, but in general punk sounded better with a female vocalist. I don’t listen to a lot of punk so I can’t really say, but I will say that generally I prefer a screaming girl–say, Patti Smith–to a screaming guy–say, Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols (whom I hate with every fiber of my being. But, I also listen to Bob Dylan so who knows what my point is).

  11. What chafes my ass about these generalizations is that what may be an “average” never accoutns for the wonderful range and diversity that occurs within a gender/racial group/age group etc. For every effed up Macy Gray baby voice, there’s a whiny Counting Crows lead singer. I can’t beleive anyone can lump female singers into a collective female voices and just say they don’t like them. You cannot tell me that Annie Lennox is in the same category as Ashlee Simpson. And I doubt anyone would lump Prince with Clay Aiken. Why on earth would we try and say all women basketball players can only compete with basketball plays from the 1880’s? It’s so fricking silly.

  12. OK, at the risk of turning everyone who reads this site against me, the WNBA is boring and WNBA teams aren’t that impressive. I don’t think that makes me sexist, just a very disappointed basketball fan.I’ve tried for years to get into the WNBA and I can’t because the games suck. Poor scoring, slow offensively, average defensively, and (other than a solid player here of there) just flat out dull.Let me make sure it’s clear that I wish dearly this wasn’t so. I love basketball and I think the WNBA is a great idea. Hopefully this is just growing pains of a (relatively) new league but – right now at least – pretty much any 70’s-era NBA or ABA team could beat a WNBA team.In fact, I might even be persuaded to put my money on the retarded puppies …

  13. Ugh. I’ve been having this argument more years than I can count, most notably starting with my dipwit father, who constantly told me how much better than girls boys were just by merit of being born male. Sexism is my hottest burning point ever. Dave, maybe you don’t watch WNBA because you don’t like the rules; while pro football is cool, I personally think college football is about the most mindnumbing sport ever televised, and that includes golf. It’s possible the game has changed by now, but I hate it so much, I haven’t watched it in over 15 years. Pamie, you go on defending us girls against airheaded men who have nothing but testosterone to stand on. Right there with you, girl. And also count myself lucky that while the boy I live with can be a misogynistic pita, he watches women sports AND listens to girls sing, and he doesn’t feel either experience is in any way degraded by the participants being female. Booyah.

  14. we were out with another couple recently and the guy said that he hadn’t read any books by female authors in probably 10 years. i asked him if he’d read the Harry Potter books and he had. oops, that’s 6.

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